Fola Akinde (she/they) 24

What's your name? What's your age? And where are you from? Hi, my full name is Fola Shadea Akinde. I am born and raised here in Miami, Florida. And I am 24 years old. 

And where in Miami have you lived? Like what neighborhoods? Um, I've always lived around Westchester, close to Doral area. So that's always been my life. But in terms of schooling, I've always gone to school like around Little Havana. 

But then I moved to Doral, like later in high school. So I still have that connection in terms of like, Little Havana and Little Haiti. Okay, cool. 

I guess like, what's your, where your ancestors from? What's like your family lineage that you're connected to? For me, I have a Yoruba background. Both of my parents are Nigerian. In terms of the connections with like Ifa or Yoruba, I would say that my family is mostly Yoruba, I would say from the Yoruba tribe. 

But in terms of Ifa, I would say my dad he has gone through the initiation process. But other than that, most of my family, they're Christians. So also having that connection with the English. 

And just that aspect of the Bible kind of having this hold on, I guess, people in Nigeria in the sense of like, the aftermath of colonialism and justice kind of like, I guess, not really divide, but there's sectors really of like, who practices what, in Nigeria. And also there's like a mixture of Muslim cultures there too. So it's just different, like, branches of religions that kind of branch out in terms of like, yeah, what's there in Nigeria or in Lagos. 

Yeah. And like, kind of like our conversations we've had before. Do you observe, like, you can

talk about it, obviously, like historically, but do you observe like the combinations of those different religions or things like that? I guess in your family or whatever you've observed? Or are they really? I think that's fine. 

Yeah, I think how I was raised, it was very separate. I didn't have like my dad around. My mom, she raised us completely. 

So we were definitely connected to our maternal side. And that maternal side is deeply connected to Christianity. So I basically was raised underneath that conception of like, just practicing and like, continuing the work that is connected with the Bible and the Lord and just this idea of God, what is God? What is Jesus? That kind of plays a role. 

But over time, I think like, I would say during my time in university, I think I kind of was searching for this call back to ancestry, and figuring out, I guess, how to reconnect back to my paternal side. But through then I was just, it was just like uncovering like family secrets in a way or just uncovering, I guess, the trauma that kind of happens when it comes to like the abandonment of like fatherhood. So through that, I was thinking of like, how I could contact him in a way and he did contact me. 

So we did talk about Ifa. But in terms of that, that was like my only connection in that sense, like just learning the principles, learning the knowledge, learning the cosmology. And through that, it kind of connected back into my art practice, in a way of like reclaiming, I guess, just the history and legacy that has been there, but also has been missing at the same time. 

So yeah, that's just like a mixture of everything in terms of how it's connected to the now. Yeah, that makes sense. I guess like the next question is like, what is your religion, practice, spirituality, but I think you're talking about it in terms of like, what, I mean, you can also have another religious practice or whatever, but it sounds like you use this in your art practice a lot or whatever. 

So I guess talk more about like, what you were saying about it being an acknowledgement of abandonment or like something you don't have or is missing, and also the work that you're doing to investigate it or call back to it. And I guess I'm curious, like, obviously you're talking about quite literally reading and learning, but there sounds like there's an also like more, I don't know what the word is, like ethereal version of this or whatever, like a thing that's more based in feeling than just learning the cosmology and all of that, I guess. Yeah, I think it was like me entering into different stages with it, figuring out, I guess, how to enter into the research, but also being respectful because knowing that the information is sacred and some of the things tend to be hidden or some of the things are, I guess, are lost in translation, especially how like some of these books and some of these texts do have like this, what's it called, I guess, reliance on the West in a way, or like just how it's fitting in the West. 

So kind of switching away from like this idea of pleasing European standards or just this idea of like meeting white supremacy or masculinity in that sense. So through that, I was also thinking

about my own queerness and this idea of like expansion within duality, because a lot of like Eurobot cosmology talks about this expansion of duality and this expansion of like two-ness and how the conditions of life kind of blossom through this, I guess, like, I feel like I have to draw in a way, like in a way, like when I see my research to kind of act as if it's like four corners, like North, South, East, West, and there's this outlier and this outlier in a way is kind of this in 

between space that moves between duality. So through that, I was kind of thinking about like how can I at least take this folklore or this mythology and kind of connect it back to the of like storytelling and narrative and actually reflect on those cultural aspects that I'm trying to connect back to, especially with heritage, especially with like preservation on just the history and like how should I see myself in terms of like looking into spirituality or religion and yeah, just seeing where those connections come and in terms of how it's connected to my work, I think it's just, it comes through like an intuitive pathway, especially when it, I guess, it comes to me responding to these questions and to the research that I'm doing, especially when it comes to concepts of water or memory or time and how that's related to the Orishas, the concept of herbology, like botany, studying like elements of the earth, elements of the world, and like just figuring out how that can manifest itself physically in all forms really, like whether it could be like through looking into archives and making collages out of them or just looking into like drawings of like how objects or how people were being depicted during those times, like just looking into different modes that came out from, I guess, imperialism and figuring out how I can critique those modes and bringing in that aspect of spirituality and religion as a sense of reclaiming myself and acknowledging the ancestors. 

Right, yeah, I feel like it's really interesting, like when I went to school this was what I was doing and but I felt like alone on an island, not in terms of like, yes, yeah, but here it's like we all are doing the same work and I actually really love that because we also like, especially you and me, it feels like I'm not to say you're not right in research but you use it for something else that I use it for usually and that's really interesting to me because essentially we're doing the same work and in this project so I'm glad to hear that because it's like I knew your work would speak to it but I think that you'll have, whether you like assign something that you've already made or create something, it sounds like you're going to have a very close connection to this so like and I'm glad just for myself, like I will definitely share it with you along the way because I think that would be really helpful but I guess my other question is and you can, I have no issue if this answer is like Christianity based, I'm just like, I think I think about it but it's like what is your first memory of spirituality and maybe you want to answer it like two ways but you know. I mean yeah, it does connect back to like the teachings of the Bible and just like the aspect of Christianity kind of lingering and like especially growing up, like going in and out of the church, like in terms of like having that experience of like Nigerian churches but then also going to like a like a Baptist church too that is not too far from my house, like having those different experiences, I can kind of see where it goes like in terms of Christianity but in terms of spirituality, I don't know, I feel like as a kid, I was kind of aware of like just things that we can't see, don't always have to be explained fully or there's this like question that kind of lingers in the back of my mind of like not everything has the answer but there is this other source that

comes to play when it comes to like events or like what a person goes through but I'm trying to think if there's like a specific moment, maybe just this idea of like also reading stories like about folklore, about ghosts really that kind of made me connect back to spirituality, like the idea of how there is something that's kind of calling somebody back into the present and whether or not it could be an outside force or whether or not it could be object that's summoning that person, there is this spiritual essence in there that has this like mystique to it really. No, that makes sense. 

I guess we've kind of already talked about like how you've come to this, not academically but necessarily but like through curiosity, like when you found things outside of like the religion or whatever that was in your home, you had a connection through your father or what have you but you really did this like in stories and then being curious and getting deeper into that I guess. I guess through that, how do I want to ask this I guess? So, let me think about this for a second. Basically, I want to ask something about like who you consider like a mentor, a leader, a teacher and like I guess how would you just, well you've already described like the work you do and how you your practice if you will but yeah I guess that's the question I'll ask like who do you look to if there is someone you look to as a leader and that can be like anybody like it kind of reminds me of like Buddhist Dharma. 

I'm working on this book on like Dharma and the Dharma is James Baldwin and Audre Lorde because like you can do that so it doesn't need to be like spiritual leader necessarily but like in the work that you're doing, is there any specific like place you look, person you look, space that you like go to or anything like that I guess? I'm trying to think because there's like I guess multiple people that have kind of impacted me in terms of like how I approach archives but then also connecting back to like spirituality in a sense of like being respectful with the space. I think like one person that kind of like sticks out would be Sadiya Hartman especially with like how she's kind of looking to like the past and creating imagined narratives as a response to like oral stories or folklore or documents. I'm trying to also think I think also like I had a professor too like when I was in college she has a connection back to Nigeria as well and she was also looking into Yoruba cosmology and Ifa and like within her class in art history she also kind of pushed me into like reflecting on yeah the cosmos and just the idea of Ifa, the Orishas especially Yamoya and Oshun just those maternal aspects that kind of follow through but I don't know I feel like I don't really have like strong names right now but it's just like words I kind of see like books or like poetry really as like what pushed me into like looking into like this practice. 

Well you don't have to do it right now but if you could share with me like what those are if you have a kind of list just because I think it'll be when you're talking about archive like I'm seeing that is not inherently outside of like spiritual practice because that's essentially like what we're doing like like you're saying a lot of it is like closed or you don't want to say too much so what I'm really doing is just giving like an overview an overview that is more tied to like this deity was down for like marginalized people queer people like women trans folks like giving it context but no you can't like go all the way into it but I do think like just that a what there's no reason that

an  archive  or  resource  is  devoid  of  like  spiritual meaning  or  whatever  like  when  you  go  to  a botanica there's little books that  I have like  the Orishas you can learn about them or whatnot you even that  I  found is still pretty centered on like Santeria or whatever which we've already talked  about  like  how  that  works  but  like  so  it's  not  that  you  can't  have  these  resources  and they're not easily accessible but they're not always focused on the folks that we want to focus and just because like  they're we want it  to be  as  accessible  to  the people  that it needs  to be accessible to and if some random picks it up it won't be like too revealing or whatnot because it's  definitely  a  balance  yeah  now  like  the  internet  I  can  google  all  these  deities  and  figure something  out  but  there's  still  you  can  feel  that  there  is  if  not  a  caginess  like  there's  it's prevented  a lot of  times  as information because  you  know  that  that information is important but it's not the same as being in like a circle of people and like practicing or whatever so I guess of  course  because  there's  like  a  different  relationship  in  that  sense  yeah  you  can  learn everything in an academic sense and I think that it is good to learn these things in the academic sense but this work that we're doing why it's connected to a performance too is to kind of blend those so that people feel connected to it who have like ancestral ties to these things you know yeah  but  it  definitely  is  a  challenge  and  I  definitely  don't  knowledge  is  knowledge  and knowledge is not devoid of like spiritual relevance but you can obviously both been in academia like you can approach these things with uh I don't want to say like a detachment you know you can but  I think that's interesting to me like balancing those things you know and the space in which yeah like I did this in grad school and I don't regret it it was like my thesis my project but it definitely has a different reaction than it does when I'm doing it like amongst my people like you know like it's just so yeah I mean it just connects back to like that I guess the journey that Black individuals have gone through in terms of like being commodified and like how are you participating  in  the  commodification  of  these  sacred  spaces  of  the  sacred  texts  like  where where is it coming  at  the point of  respect  and where is it coming  at  the point of like  are  you being an outlooker like are you just being invasive like just figuring out how to be I guess like holding  yourself  accountable  and  just  knowing  where  you're  placing  yourself  with  that relationship oh absolutely and  I  think it's also like at  the end of  the day it's  for everything  I'm trying to do or we're trying to do and I'm sure you're trying to do is like for us so it's like you still want  to call because Black  folks have been so removed  from  their culture you still do have  to start at like a semi-primer level but  you want  that  to encourage people  to get into it on  their own and or in their community in a way that makes sense for them not everyone is going to be like  in  the  archives  you  know  what  I mean  but  I  do  think  context  too  because  everyone  that we've spoken to has like you do too it's just like you're doing it a little different has like a mixed practice  because  that's  we're  coming  from  this  like  American  thing  whereas  like  I'm  like  my grandparents are Pentecostal so more akin to the Baptist church that you like if you wanted to compare it to something probably experience um and that's relevant like I still have a Bible on my altar because that's my grandma gave me her Bible like whatever like that's a part of course but I do think like um you should be how I was introduced to that at a young age and have like a pretty good working knowledge of Christianity because I grew up with it we should have that with our spiritual um practices as well so that's kind of where I'm coming from it's like you can do whatever  you want  to do but if  you do  this  you do need some basic uh history  and some

ground rules of respect and like you can do what you do like I feel like that's where we're coming into things like either people have no idea so they feel maybe Christianity like alienates them as a queer person or whatever they don't feel they have an option yeah then there's on the other hand people who are just like wilding in spaces that they were not called to so it's just kind of like giving people information so that they can figure that out I guess is my point but it's definitely the balance because yeah at the end of the day like we're not doing this to commodify but someone is paying us to do this so it's like not paying us in the way that like here's money like a job but they're paying us to do this project that's like very like that's I think specifically something we have to think about when doing this type of work or whatever but it's not that different from academia because you're just you're getting a degree or whatever even if the work is your passion there's still a transaction to it and I don't know how I don't think transactions are inherently bad but it's just something like we have to consider so yeah of course like the intention behind it for sure exactly like if you we we all have to work within systems so doing that to our benefit versus like I don't want people I don't want whoever white is involved with us to be like pat themselves on the back because we did this I wanted to be confronting because yeah like you know if you're if that's what yes so yeah I think that we'll do that and essentially like I'm not too worried about that aspect of it but it is like balancing the goals I guess you know because the end goal is to provide people with this information and open up their ways of being so that they can figure out what they want to do spiritually or whatever but anyways of course I guess the other question this might not be like relevant but I'm just gonna go through them but inside your home or inside home is like as in the your nuclear family in here close to you do you feel like comfortable sharing your interest in spirituality outside of like Christianity or is that like how does that work for you I guess I still tiptoe around it because my mom she has her own superstitions on it yeah and I know like with her own connection with Christianity she has a I guess she understands that the Orishas still play a role in terms of culture and how like it's still relevant it's still present in Nigeria but there is this separation from it so I do feel as though like I have to tiptoe around the conversations of Orishas but she still understands that my work is connected through that lens of like studying like the history studying the folklore how it's manifested itself culturally like through iconography or through just how information has traveled in terms of like how these Orishas are being spoken of or like being represented through different cultures so yeah I feel like it just depends but I have talked to my sisters about it but it's not something that they're like really like like really familiar with or want to dive in deeper but yeah I think like I've realized in terms of like just me figuring out my connection with the Orishas and just unraveling my own spirituality it does feel as though like it feels like a personal journey like of you trying to reconnect back to yourself reconnect like how you view yourself and how you look into the world just as a way to guide yourself into like how you like see these practices and like how you approach it with care yeah that makes sense I'm interested to see just like on a personal level like where that goes as time goes on because yeah this is my interest I wouldn't necessarily say it's my sister's interest but at the same time like she does understand like why I look into these things and what it has to do with her and whatnot and I agree I like relate to when you're like they have their own superstitions about around it because I feel like my grandparents like I

know they believe in like all elements of like the beliefs they have in Jamaica outside of like Christianity but they won't like engage with it but it's different than someone who just straight up doesn't believe in it and only believes in their thing if that makes sense like I know they believe in like um what have you like duppies or like what have you because they're fearful of it you don't have fear of things if you don't believe in yes it's the fear yeah because like you wouldn't have fear if you didn't like also believe that to be a thing you know what I mean of course it's like which is different than I would say obviously like atheists or even like just like more um westernized not even because Catholicism is a different thing but like more non 

denominational like Lutheran Methodist type folks I just don't think carry that same kind of like fear based in like I'm assuming like deep generational like things that have occurred um I don't know how this will work we might have to restart this usually I do Google have that with my job so maybe I'll switch to that but anyways um there's like 10 minutes so we'll deal with it um but yeah they basically when I told them my project because they were heavily involved with my project they're like oh like be careful blah blah blah and I know for a fact like in their lives because they weren't always always Pentecostal they my grandpa like went to the medicine man or whatever and I guess he had like a traumatizing experience it's really impossible to like get information from them and I don't think he had a traumatizing experience necessarily because of the medicine man he was having some like mental health issues but the connection you know what I mean and I understand that but I do think like yeah and my mom's the same way like I told her I went to this kid's house his family is like Jewish or whatever I was watching their dog but they were like travelers and they had all this these relics and things from other cultures like not all over the house and I was like when I'm in here like I don't like feel like good like there's and like worst nightmares they're like so bad like I woke it was like lucid kind of and the next night I was dating came over and I was like tell me if you like have wild ass nightmares here because like I I cannot even I was terrified and they have this dog that's like was I believe animals like see these things it's like very skittish dog and dogs love me like I so I was like what the fuck going on with this dog you know but basically I asked my his friend I was like Sam like have you ever felt this way in this house and he made it was like I've always felt that way but like what do you say you can't be like return those to like where they belong like it's like oh my god they like seem to be like really like and then I couldn't tell you what one it was because it was like Asian ones Caribbean ones at like who the hell know but basically my point is I told my mom that story and she immediately was like yeah like I don't mess with like she believed me but is dismissive I guess is my point is like okay moving on with the blood of Christ you know and I'm like no my mom's the same way yeah same same way like I remember her telling me that she had her own experience with like be like because the Nigerian used to be like witchcraft some sort of way like I don't know my mom she has stories so I'm like okay like I believe you right like you've seen like things conjured up like you've seen like even my grandma too my grandma she's had a difficult life in terms of like people trying to attack her and she's been protected her whole life like oh just harm coming on to my family in multiple forms and there's been some sort of like protection over that so like just hearing stories from family about how like be careful what you say and respect your elders because you don't know who you're going to talk to just hearing like those cultural aspects being repeated like time and time again

that's  what  they  always  remind  you  like  that  aspect  of  fear  like  we  acknowledge  that  this  is  happening but we are fearful of it because of our own safety but even then there's also like just  that  aspect  of  like magic  being  present  like  within  Nigeria  or  like  within  the  culture  itself  like  just  even  through  prayer  too  prayer  does  hold  this magical  element  oh  absolutely  absolutely  and I think what you mean about being covered I believe that of myself and I don't necessarily I  believe it's because  the prayers  that  folks do but  that doesn't necessarily exactly  that it's  from  it's  the  magic  of  the  prayers  and  of  themselves  I  feel  like  I  agree  and  whether  that  be  from  ancestor protection like an overall Christian god or whatever it doesn't it matters that I want to  honor that but I also think like it really is the intention of the prayer to you or whatever because  I feel that same way too like I feel like shit has been crazy but I always make it out and I don't  think  everyone  else  would  make  it  out  you  know  necessarily  and  that's  probably  like  your  grandma or something but yeah I don't I think that's what I meant like by combination because  it's  not  necessarily  like  this  is  our mixed  practice  you  can  see  this  and  you  can  see  this  but  I  think  that  kind  of way  of  thinking  or  that way  of  being is  something  that is  from  our  original  spiritual practices just because as a person who like has white  family and exists  that way  they  don't do that like it's not the same thing you know and if they do it's because it's coming from  the  baptist  tradition  which  we  know  has  to  do  with  southern  folks  and  slaves  and  their  stuff  mixing  together you know because  they were not  turned up like  that in  the north and  I know  because I've gone to church in the north they like you know so I think that's always interesting  how those things flow through in ways that aren't necessarily like concrete I guess you so you  spoke before like your dad you didn't like know him know him but you knew that he had some  kind of connection to Yourba. 

Is that something that is like a family lineage on the paternal side like do you know anything about that. I, my mom told me that he was initiated but I believe his family is still Christian. I'm not sure like in terms of how things change over time or like he just isolated himself out in terms of like just him being the only one practicing IFA, but I know for sure he's still practicing it today. 

Okay, that's interesting. Either way, it's like we know that someone in your family practice before, like, that just probably has to be the logical idea regard like somewhere far back, you know, interesting. If he made that choice which is kind of like what we're talking about, like the option to have that choice, or the knowledge to have that choice. 

But you know what's funny, he actually also like, like him like I don't really talk about this this much but he directs he writes and stuff like that like he used to write books. When I was younger, um he wrote books just talking about folklore and everything, but like within his own writing he talks about the IFA like culture and just like the Orishas and deities and I believe like I have one of his poetry books. And he talks about, yeah I found it, perfect. 

This is like his writing, talking about how he got initiated. Oh wow, that's really interesting and something like to have. Oh it's like his writing for real. 

Yeah, like he wrote all of his poetry here, like talking about like just different aspects of like this, like with the kingdom, and then just talking about, I don't know just different stuff. Like the jungle, the wild, like talking about the spirit, talking about motherhood, talking about aspects of Christianity and how that's kind of affected IFA, like just a lot of stuff so I've been also looking 

back into his work and figuring out like how I can also connect it back to my own practice. Right, that's pretty like, that is interesting that you have that, like that you physically own that, and interesting that he ever did that because it seems like there's an anticipation of sharing, if you're doing that or whatever, like if you're collecting that. 

Did he like publish these things? Publishes, published does, but like did he share these outside of like, is it a journal diary or was it like a public facing thing? He has published other books, I have one book but I'm not sure if that's connected to IFA. But, um, what was I thinking? I mean, nothing's really published like for these here like this journal here, it's not published I think it was just his own personal writing. Right. 

I feel like he, I know, because I remember researching that there was an Orisha church here in

Miami. Yeah, I don't know if he also was practicing in that church because I did see some paraphernalia that was also connected. When I, like, was younger, but we had to throw everything out. 

So I wasn't sure. So I think there was probably an audience in terms of him practicing and also putting his poetry. That makes sense like I mean publishing and that shared with anybody else so I believe that's probably true, but that's interesting I wonder like what his intention was with this journal and specific if it was like to work through, or if it was intended to be something like it is now where you have it and can use it, you know, either way that's the outcome so I'm 

happy that you have that that's like very interesting. 

And that's what I'm saying like you, you have that, that's like a privilege like that's something that a lot of people don't have. And I think that's something we're trying to provide, but it will never be as personal or as like deep is what your dad wrote just because that's not appropriate, you know, like, but it's. Or I don't feel like I'm the one that would curate that or something and that that probably does exist like you're saying within the community in which it exists that if you're interested, you can go and join that like I do think that's that like I would never want to see that book as it is published in like just a pure way where you can get it on Amazon, that would be wild. 

Like there are ways that you have to go about this, which a lot of people are writing those type of books now, but I know that's not going to be like that, you know, so that's always, you know, I bet you. Yeah, not to say you can't implement things from that but you get what I mean like that was written with a personal intention, the intention behind it. It's kind of like people the argument people have for like publishing people's diaries or whatever posthumous or whatever because like if that wasn't their intention, then what you know like I don't know, I think, you know, so yeah that's interesting to me I'm glad you have it though that's probably very helpful in your process, if not like following it. 

You know like integrating it fully at least you have a touchstone for your own like thing that you want to do or whatever. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Like I've used some of the writing in like, I actually collage some of the writing with like other illustrations during my undergrad, like as a way of like, I guess connecting back to my paternal side so I haven't really gone back into the book and just looking at the, the poetry but yeah just the idea of like having that response, like in the future but also in the past. 

No, that's super interesting. I think that that's something I wish, like my ancestors would do but honestly like before my grandparents, I don't even think they like that was possible I'm not so sure like how much they had an education to even do such things, but it is like, I feel like in the moment, which is interesting because this has to do with colonialism too because I think this is always true, but in the moment they were probably passing this stuff on orally without realizing that it would have been so disrupted at some point like, like, you wouldn't be allowed to speak your native language, and like during chattel slavery or whatever. So it's like, yeah, and if your

culture did not exactly revolve around written word, the way that ours does, why would you be like, Oh, let me write this down, you would be like, I'm just going to tell my niece, my daughter, like, I totally see how it happened. 

It's more like, okay, now that that has happened. How do we get people tied back in that deserve to be tied back in, and I do think, yeah, the closer. I do think a lot of people who are like have family that are immigrants, like my mom's live from Jamaica born there but like when she was seven, she moved here, but the like, if your family is adults and they moved here, I feel like it's not a God given truth but it's like, it gives a chance for them to share with you more directly their culture because they like are in their culture, you know what I mean. 

Some people make the active choice not to which we see all the time here in Miami and whatnot, but it's more just like, where, how, even if they're like fearful and rejected they have the knowledge to share with you like your mom has stories to tell you if she chooses to or whatever, which is interesting. Um, and like I'm sure my grandparents have stories they've told me some stories but grandparents are grandparents do like they're not telling me all that stuff and I, like, I feel like it's not appropriate, it's like what you're saying you have to tiptoe around it you have to go, which I when I'm going to Jamaica now I'm already like the outsider of my family so I am about to ask them these old people what's tea, and I just saying, but I know I have to go about it like in a way that isn't wilding out you know it's just like kind of, but we'll see. Um, so I guess, a lot of these are more like things that we've kind of talked about a little bit, but I will still see what else I can ask you. 

Um, I guess, well, you can expand on this you've already talked about it but like the question is literally do you consider relationship to spirit ancestor work. Yes, but I would also extend it to like memory work as well. Like I feel like a lot of the work that I do has to do a lot with like memory work, just this idea of calling back to ancestry or calling back to the land. 

Um, whether it's like here in Miami or or whether it's like Nigeria itself, or just looking at other places that have been impacted by the enslavement of people. So yeah, just that connection that I'm trying to bridge everything together. I think it allows with like a lot of memory work to.